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Thrust lines

 
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patrickjladd(at)hotmail.c
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:17 am    Post subject: Thrust lines Reply with quote

Oh dear, I didn`t mean to stir up such a furore.
My comments applied to a properly set up machine. If you cannot get off the ground or climb at full chat with normal control inputs then there is something wrong with the machine . The thrust line, which can be adjusted by a few washers is an easy option. is the weight and balance correct is another. Sorry if I sound as if I am teaching grannie to suck eggs but if you have to throttle back to takeoff then the basics are very wrong. Pat


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neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:31 am    Post subject: Thrust lines Reply with quote

Pat
Bill asked the question about mounting his HKS. This engine isn't a real common engine yet. It was a good question. The correct answer is mount it as low as you can for the best all around performance. A washer or two doesn't help when the prop is too high, tried that also.
We have a saying in this country...your digging a hole for your self, quit digging.
Please please do not archive
Rick Neilsen

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 5:17 AM, Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com (patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

Oh dear, I didn`t mean to stir up such a furore.
My comments applied to a properly set up machine. If you cannot get off the ground or climb at full chat with normal control inputs then there is something wrong with the machine . The thrust line, which can be adjusted by a few washers is an easy option. is the weight and balance correct is another. Sorry if I sound as if I am teaching  grannie to suck eggs but if you have to throttle back to takeoff then the basics are very wrong.  Pat



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patrickjladd(at)hotmail.c
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:47 am    Post subject: Thrust lines Reply with quote

Hi Rick,
I think the discussion had gone beyond just the mounting of the HKS into the general behaviour of engines mounted away from the centre line of the a/c .i.e. most pushers. Obviously the closer to the centre line the better but the effects of the high thrust line can be minimised (but not eliminated) by changing the angle of the thrust, hence my suggestion of tipping the engine slightly by adding washers. I remember flying a pretty little biplane amphibian in France on the Gulf de Morbihan many years ago. The prop was mounted like the Kolb as a high pusher to keep it out of the spray when landing in the sea. The pilot was at great pains to explain the importance of setting up the engine at the correct angle which was NOT parallel to the flight line. Set up wrongly full chat at takeoff could stuff your nose into the water.
As an aside. I met that pilot by accident at Sun `n` Fun a couple of years later. The flying world is very small.
Ok ,I have stopped digging
Cheers


Pat

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
Sent: 21 September 2016 16:31:23
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Thrust lines

Pat


Bill asked the question about mounting his HKS. This engine isn't a real common engine yet. It was a good question. The correct answer is mount it as low as you can for the best all around performance. A washer or two doesn't help when the prop is too high, tried that also.


We have a saying in this country...your digging a hole for your self, quit digging.


Please please do not archive


Rick Neilsen

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 5:17 AM, Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com (patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:

Oh dear, I didn`t mean to stir up such a furore.
My comments applied to a properly set up machine. If you cannot get off the ground or climb at full chat with normal control inputs then there is something wrong with the machine . The thrust line, which can be adjusted by a few washers is an easy option. is the weight and balance correct is another. Sorry if I sound as if I am teaching grannie to suck eggs but if you have to throttle back to takeoff then the basics are very wrong. Pat



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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:40 am    Post subject: Thrust lines Reply with quote

Pat
If the pusher engine is not mounted in line with flight,    did you raise the front or the back to eliminate the nose over tendency?  Also that is the trim difference in straight and level flight,  with the front raised vs having the back raised????
Boyd
...........................

The prop was mounted like the Kolb as a high pusher to keep it out of the spray when landing in the sea. The pilot was at great pains to explain the importance of setting up the engine at the correct angle which was NOT parallel to the flight line. Set up wrongly full chat at takeoff could stuff your nose into the water.
Pat


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victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:45 am    Post subject: Thrust lines Reply with quote

On Thu, 9/22/16, Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

"Set up wrongly full chat at takeoff could stuff your nose into the water."

As an aside, completely separate from the thrust line discussion... the last time I saw the expression "full chat" used, I believe it was in an article written by the great British racing and test pilot Ranald Porteous, regarding his experiences in the incredible little Chilton Monoplane. Every time I see that old black and white picture of him just strutting along down the flight line, holding the tailskid of the Chilton in his hand, it makes me smile. What a time to have been in aviation ! Thanks to Roy Nerou for keeping the Chilton legacy alive Smile

OK... back to Kolbs. I intend to mount my engine in such a way as to put the thrust line as low as practicable. I am very happy that the cumulative knowledge and field experience and the members of this discussion group seems to strongly support this concept.

Bill Berle
FireStar 2 / HKS 700E being mounted
Los Angeles


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victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:07 am    Post subject: Thrust lines Reply with quote

The concept on high mounted engines (Lake Buccaneer and others) is to angle the thrust line so that the wind from the propeller is blowing downward a little onto the stabilizer. This pushes the back end of the airplane downward a little, which (hopefully) compensates for the engine trying to push the nose down.

The Kolb ALREADY has a little of this built in, you can see it very easily. The bottom of the propeller arc is further forward (closer to the steel cage) than the top of the propeller arc. Homer Kolb and/or the other designers/engineers on the project built that angle in to the airplane, based on well known and proven principles. They were smart to do it, and it worked. I'm guessing that the angle built into the Kolb fuselage is correct for the originally installed engines, which is why it is always reported that the original "stock" Kolb flies perfectly. Makes perfect sense. Homer did it right.

If you are adding a lot more power to the aircraft (or raising the thrust line because of a redrive), adding washers under the front of the engine mounts will raise the front of the engine, INCREASING the downward angle of the prop airflow as it hits the tail, and pushing down on the tail a little more. There is nothing wrong with trying to adjust the thrust line this way, so long as it doesn't allow the propeller tip to get too close to the tailboom, or the rear of the steel cage.

HOWEVER, the height of the thrust line (above the CG) will have a lot more effect on the airplane than the angle blowing down on the tail.... so there is only so much you can do with washers, and it easily may not be enough to overcome the "leverage" of the engine trying to push the nose down.

Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/22/16, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: Thrust lines
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016, 8:40 AM

Pat

If the pusher engine is not mounted in line with
flight,    did you raise the front or the back to
eliminate the nose over tendency?  Also that is the trim
difference in straight and level flight,  with the front
raised vs having the back raised????
Boyd
...........................

The prop was mounted like the Kolb as a high
pusher to keep it out of the spray when landing in the sea.
The pilot was at great pains to explain the importance of
setting up the engine at the correct angle which was NOT
parallel to the flight line. Set up wrongly full chat at
takeoff could stuff your nose into the water.

Pat


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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject: Thrust lines Reply with quote

Boyd Y/Kolbers:

Early on I experimented with changing the thrust line, both up and down, front and rear, with as much as 5/8ths inch difference from stock position.  After a lot of wrenching and flying, I put things back to where they belonged.  I found no difference in airspeed, pitch trim, or anything else.

Much like my experiments with the leading edge of the upper vertical stabilizer.  After a lot of drilling and riveting difference positions to try and counteract adverse yaw, I ended up back where I started.

Homer and Dennis did a good job designing the MKIII original.

john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 9:40 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Thrust lines


Pat
If the pusher engine is not mounted in line with flight, did you raise the front or the back to eliminate the nose over tendency? Also that is the trim difference in straight and level flight, with the front raised vs having the back raised????
Boyd
...........................
The prop was mounted like the Kolb as a high pusher to keep it out of the spray when landing in the sea. The pilot was at great pains to explain the importance of setting up the engine at the correct angle which was NOT parallel to the flight line. Set up wrongly full chat at takeoff could stuff your nose into the water.
Pat


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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama
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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:26 am    Post subject: Thrust lines Reply with quote

As I was reading my msg below, not only did I think of another experiment I did, I also noticed I misspelled "different".

To counteract adverse yaw on my original Firestar I elongated the engine mounting holes to allow me to twist the engine and change the thrust line laterally.  That experiment didn't prove anything either, but cost me a new mounting plate.

john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 11:15 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Thrust lines

Boyd Y/Kolbers:

Early on I experimented with changing the thrust line, both up and down, front and rear, with as much as 5/8ths inch difference from stock position.  After a lot of wrenching and flying, I put things back to where they belonged.  I found no difference in airspeed, pitch trim, or anything else.

Much like my experiments with the leading edge of the upper vertical stabilizer.  After a lot of drilling and riveting difference positions to try and counteract adverse yaw, I ended up back where I started.

Homer and Dennis did a good job designing the MKIII original.

john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 9:40 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Thrust lines


Pat
If the pusher engine is not mounted in line with flight, did you raise the front or the back to eliminate the nose over tendency? Also that is the trim difference in straight and level flight, with the front raised vs having the back raised????
Boyd
...........................
The prop was mounted like the Kolb as a high pusher to keep it out of the spray when landing in the sea. The pilot was at great pains to explain the importance of setting up the engine at the correct angle which was NOT parallel to the flight line. Set up wrongly full chat at takeoff could stuff your nose into the water.
Pat


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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama
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mojavjoe



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:22 pm    Post subject: Thrust lines Reply with quote

It seemed to me that this discussion started about raising the HKS engine to clear the exhaust on one side. Couldn't those washers be used on that one side to raise it the required distance while raising the thrust line only half that distance.

Joe

From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 1:25:45 PM
Subject: RE: Thrust lines

As I was reading my msg below, not only did I think of another experiment I did, I also noticed I misspelled "different".

To counteract adverse yaw on my original Firestar I elongated the engine mounting holes to allow me to twist the engine and change the thrust line laterally. That experiment didn't prove anything either, but cost me a new mounting plate.

john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 11:15 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Thrust lines

Boyd Y/Kolbers:

Early on I experimented with changing the thrust line, both up and down, front and rear, with as much as 5/8ths inch difference from stock position. After a lot of wrenching and flying, I put things back to where they belonged. I found no difference in airspeed, pitch trim, or anything else.

Much like my experiments with the leading edge of the upper vertical stabilizer. After a lot of drilling and riveting difference positions to try and counteract adverse yaw, I ended up back where I started.

Homer and Dennis did a good job designing the MKIII original.
 
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 9:40 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Thrust lines


Pat
If the pusher engine is not mounted in line with flight, did you raise the front or the back to eliminate the nose over tendency?  Also that is the trim difference in straight and level flight, with the front raised vs having the back raised????
Boyd
..........................
The prop was mounted like the Kolb as a high pusher to keep it out of the spray when landing in the sea. The pilot was at great pains to explain the importance of setting up the engine at the correct angle which was NOT parallel to the flight line. Set up wrongly full chat at takeoff could stuff your nose into the water.
Pat


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victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:38 pm    Post subject: Thrust lines Reply with quote

Apparently the aileron interference problem is solved by moving the aileron one way or another during assembly, so it is now a non-issue. I will be going out to the hangar this evening to test that theory !

Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/22/16, mojavjoe(at)comcast.net <mojavjoe(at)comcast.net> wrote:

Subject: Re: Thrust lines
To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016, 3:21 PM

It seemed to me that this
discussion started about raising the HKS engine to clear
the exhaust on one side. Couldn't those washers be used
on that one side to raise it the required distance while
raising the thrust line only half that distance.

Joe

From: "John
Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
To: "kolb-list"
<kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent:
Thursday, September 22, 2016 1:25:45 PM
Subject: RE: Thrust lines

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#yiv7640047964 As I was reading my msg below, not
only did I think of another experiment I did, I also noticed
I misspelled "different". To counteract adverse yaw on my
original Firestar I elongated the engine mounting holes to
allow me to twist the engine and change the thrust line
laterally.  That experiment
didn't prove anything either, but cost me a new mounting
plate. john hmkIIIRock House,
Oregon From:
owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Hauck
Sent: Thursday,
September 22, 2016 11:15 AM
To:
kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kolb-List:
Thrust lines Boyd
Y/Kolbers: Early on I experimented with
changing the thrust line, both up and down, front and rear,
with as much as 5/8ths inch difference from stock
position.  After a lot of wrenching
and flying, I put things back to where they belonged.  I found no difference in airspeed, pitch
trim, or anything else. Much like my experiments with the
leading edge of the upper vertical stabilizer.  After a lot of drilling and riveting
difference positions to try and counteract adverse yaw, I
ended up back where I started. Homer and Dennis did a good job
designing the MKIII original. john hmkIIIRock House,
Oregon From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of B
Young
Sent: Thursday,
September 22, 2016 9:40 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List:
Thrust lines Pat
If the pusher
engine is not mounted in line with flight,    did you
raise the front or the back to eliminate the nose over
tendency?  Also that is the trim difference in straight and
level flight,  with the front raised vs having the back
raised????Boyd...........................The prop was mounted like the Kolb
as a high pusher to keep it out of the spray when landing in
the sea. The pilot was at great pains to explain the
importance of setting up the engine at the correct angle
which was NOT parallel to the flight line. Set up wrongly
full chat at takeoff could stuff your nose into the
water.
Pat


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aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:25 am    Post subject: Thrust lines Reply with quote

When setting the Mk111 up I found the best all round performance was when the thrust line was set so that at cruise RPM a reduction of 200 rpm there is a slight nose up fell. This is so slight that when someone else is flying the aircraft you have to demenstrate the nose up with power reduction. There are no noticable adverse problems when taking off or landing either two up or solo at any power setting . Prop pitch is set so that RPM follows the trottle. There is no throttle lag ,this gives a very good rate of climb of about 1000 fpm at QNH with a 503 at about 20c .The fact that the nose comes up with a power reduction would suggest that the rear of the engine is high in relation to the thrust line.
Hope this is usfull for someone.
Downunder
503 NK111 classic
On Friday, 23 September 2016 10:43 AM, Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)>Apparently the aileron interference problem is solved by moving the aileron one way or another during assembly, so it is now a non-issue. I will be going out to the hangar this evening to test that theory !Bill Berlewww.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraftwww.grantstar.net   - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities--------------------------------------------On Thu, 9/22/16, mojavjoe(at)comcast.net (mojavjoe(at)comcast.net) <mojavjoe(at)comcast.net (mojavjoe(at)comcast.net)> wrote: Subject: Re: Thrust lines To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)> Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016, 3:21 PM It seemed to me that this discussion started about raising the HKS engine to clear the exhaust on one side. Couldn't those washers be used on that one side to raise it the required distance while raising the thrust line only half that distance. Joe From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 1:25:45 PM Subject: RE: Thrust lines #yiv7640047964 #yiv7640047964 _filtered #yiv7640047964 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7640047964 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7640047964 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv7640047964 p.yiv7640047964MsoNormal, #yiv7640047964 li.yiv7640047964MsoNormal, #yiv7640047964 div.yiv7640047964MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv7640047964 a:link, #yiv7640047964 span.yiv7640047964MsoHyperlink   {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv7640047964 a:visited, #yiv7640047964 span.yiv7640047964MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv7640047964 p   {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv7640047964 p.yiv7640047964MsoAcetate, #yiv7640047964 li.yiv7640047964MsoAcetate, #yiv7640047964 div.yiv7640047964MsoAcetate {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv7640047964 span.yiv7640047964EmailStyle18 {color:#0D0D0D;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #yiv7640047964 span.yiv7640047964EmailStyle19   {color:#0D0D0D;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #yiv7640047964 span.yiv7640047964BalloonTextChar   {} #yiv7640047964 .yiv7640047964MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7640047964 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv7640047964 div.yiv7640047964WordSection1 {} #yiv7640047964 As I was reading my msg below, not only did I think of another experiment I did, I also noticed I misspelled "different". To counteract adverse yaw on my original Firestar I elongated the engine mounting holes to allow me to twist the engine and change the thrust line laterally. That experiment didn't prove anything either, but cost me a new mounting plate. john hmkIIIRock House, Oregon From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of John Hauck Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 11:15 AM To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com) Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Thrust lines Boyd Y/Kolbers: Early on I experimented with changing the thrust line, both up and down, front and rear, with as much as 5/8ths inch difference from stock position. After a lot of wrenching and flying, I put things back to where they belonged. I found no difference in airspeed, pitch trim, or anything else. Much like my experiments with the leading edge of the upper vertical stabilizer. After a lot of drilling and riveting difference positions to try and counteract adverse yaw, I ended up back where I started. Homer and Dennis did a good job designing the MKIII original. john hmkIIIRock House, Oregon From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of B Young Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 9:40 AM To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com) Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Thrust lines Pat If the pusher engine is not mounted in line with flight, did you raise the front or the back to eliminate the nose over tendency? Also that is the trim difference in straight and level flight, with the front raised vs having the back raised????Boyd...........................The prop was mounted like the Kolb as a high pusher to keep it out of the spray when landing in the sea. The pilot was at great pains to explain the importance of setting up the engine at the correct angle which was NOT parallel to the flight line. Set up wrongly full chat at takeoff could stuff your nose into the water. Pat http://forums.matronics.com[/url]http:/bsp; -Matt D" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contrib========




On Friday, 23 September 2016 10:43 AM, Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net (victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net)>Apparently the aileron interference problem is solved by moving the aileron one way or another during assembly, so it is now a non-issue. I will be going out to the hangar this evening to test that theory !Bill Berlewww.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraftwww.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities--------------------------------------------On Thu, 9/22/16, mojavjoe(at)comcast.net (mojavjoe(at)comcast.net) <mojavjoe(at)comcast.net (mojavjoe(at)comcast.net)> wrote: Subject: Re: Thrust lines To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)> Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016, 3:21 PM It seemed to me that this discussion started about raising the HKS engine to clear the exhaust on one side. Couldn't those washers be used on that one side to raise it the required distance while raising the thrust line only half that distance. Joe From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 1:25:45 PM Subject: RE: Thrust lines #yiv7640047964 #yiv7640047964 _filtered #yiv7640047964 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7640047964 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7640047964 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv7640047964 p.yiv7640047964MsoNormal, #yiv7640047964 li.yiv7640047964MsoNormal, #yiv7640047964 div.yiv7640047964MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv7640047964 a:link, #yiv7640047964 span.yiv7640047964MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv7640047964 a:visited, #yiv7640047964 span.yiv7640047964MsoHyperlinkFollowed   {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv7640047964 p {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv7640047964 p.yiv7640047964MsoAcetate, #yiv7640047964 li.yiv7640047964MsoAcetate, #yiv7640047964 div.yiv7640047964MsoAcetate {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;} #yiv7640047964 span.yiv7640047964EmailStyle18 {color:#0D0D0D;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #yiv7640047964 span.yiv7640047964EmailStyle19 {color:#0D0D0D;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #yiv7640047964 span.yiv7640047964BalloonTextChar {} #yiv7640047964 .yiv7640047964MsoChpDefault   {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7640047964 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv7640047964 div.yiv7640047964WordSection1 {} #yiv7640047964 As I was reading my msg below, not only did I think of another experiment I did, I also noticed I misspelled "different". To counteract adverse yaw on my original Firestar I elongated the engine mounting holes to allow me to twist the engine and change the thrust line laterally. That experiment didn't prove anything either, but cost me a new mounting plate. john hmkIIIRock House, Oregon From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of John Hauck Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 11:15 AM To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com) Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Thrust lines Boyd Y/Kolbers: Early on I experimented with changing the thrust line, both up and down, front and rear, with as much as 5/8ths inch difference from stock position. After a lot of wrenching and flying, I put things back to where they belonged. I found no difference in airspeed, pitch trim, or anything else. Much like my experiments with the leading edge of the upper vertical stabilizer. After a lot of drilling and riveting difference positions to try and counteract adverse yaw, I ended up back where I started. Homer and Dennis did a good job designing the MKIII original. john hmkIIIRock House, Oregon From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of B Young Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 9:40 AM To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com) Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Thrust lines Pat If the pusher engine is not mounted in line with flight, did you raise the front or the back to eliminate the nose over tendency? Also that is the trim difference in straight and level flight, with the front raised vs having the back raised????Boyd...........................The prop was mounted like the Kolb as a high pusher to keep it out of the spray when landing in the sea. The pilot was at great pains to explain the importance of setting up the engine at the correct angle which was NOT parallel to the flight line. Set up wrongly full chat at takeoff could stuff your nose into the water. Pat _-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,http://ww; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -http: --> http://wiki.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contrib====================


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