Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - in-line fuel filters

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RotaxEngines-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:15 am Post subject: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?

After my issues with my feeder tank becoming blocked with silicone gasket

material, I have cleaned the tanks and header tank.  



Now I'd like to install an in-line filter between each wing-tank and the

header tank.  (I already have a gascolator between the header tank and the

fuel pump, so the purpose of the in-line filters is really just to stop any

goo getting to the header tank and blocking the fuel supply line to the

engine).  



Are there any in-line filters that are NOT recommended?  I've heard that

plastic in-line filters are not advisable.  Metal sounds safe, but is not

easily inspectable.  Glass doesn't sound so safe.   What are folks using?

ACS has a couple of different options but none (except the most expensive

one "Micron 10") come with fuel flow and pressure drop specs.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:43 am Post subject: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?

This       is similar to what I use, except it's between the header and       engine.  It's huge and I don't think it could ever reasonably       clog. I don't filter into the header tank if you except the finger         filters in the tank outlets to keep out the big chunks.

       

       Guy Buchanan

       Ramona, CA

       Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded

       Now a glider pilot, too.

       

       On 6/27/2014 6:14 AM, Sacha wrote:

     

     [quote]        	  Quote: 	
		  --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Sacha" <uuccio(at)gmail.com> (uuccio(at)gmail.com)



After my issues with my feeder tank becoming blocked with silicone gasket

material, I have cleaned the tanks and header tank.  



Now I'd like to install an in-line filter between each wing-tank and the

header tank.  (I already have a gascolator between the header tank and the

fuel pump, so the purpose of the in-line filters is really just to stop any

goo getting to the header tank and blocking the fuel supply line to the

engine).  



	
     [b]

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

rvsimons

Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 22

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?

Purolator Proline glass filter with plastic screen filter. You can get them at most any auto store. I install them in line and once screwed together I safety wire across it to keep from spinning apart. I never used any filter with a paper type filter or ones I cant see through to inspect. Here is a picture of the filter. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dellortoshop.com%2Fcontents%2Fmedia%2Fpro896_sytec_in_line_fuel_filter_element_replacement_ds.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dellortoshop.com%2Fcontents%2Fen-us%2Fd31_Dellorto_SH1_and_SH2_Parts_Shop.html&h=300&w=249&tbnid=CKnixi_WQ9eHbM%3A&zoom=1&q=pro-line%20fuel%20filters&docid=lT0-I-ZbpjTqcM&ei=D8KtU9b7HomhyASenoDgAw&tbm=isch&ved=0CCYQMygJMAk&iact=rc&uact=3&page=2&start=6&ndsp=6  

Vance

  --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Sacha" <uuccio(at)gmail.com (uuccio(at)gmail.com)>

  

 After my issues with my feeder tank becoming blocked with silicone gasket

 material, I have cleaned the tanks and header tank.

 

 Now I'd like to install an in-line filter between each wing-tank and the

 header tank.  (I already have a gascolator between the header tank and the

 fuel pump, so the purpose of the in-line filters is really just to stop any

 goo getting to the header tank and blocking the fuel supply line to the

 engine).

 

 Are there any in-line filters that are NOT recommended?  I've heard that

 plastic in-line filters are not advisable.  Metal sounds safe, but is not

 easily inspectable.  Glass doesn't sound so safe.   What are folks using?

 ACS has a couple of different options but none (except the most expensive

 one "Micron 10") come with fuel flow and pressure drop specs.

 

 

 ===========

  -

 nes-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List

 ===========

 MS -

 k">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 e -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 

  [quote][b]

_________________
Vance Simons
Post Falls, Idaho
Zenith 701

rvsimons

Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 22

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:53 am Post subject: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?

I have used these on three differ airplanes and never had a problem with them. Easy to inspect and easy to change filters in.  

Vance  On Jun 27, 2014 6:19 AM, "Sacha" <uuccio(at)gmail.com (uuccio(at)gmail.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Sacha" <uuccio(at)gmail.com (uuccio(at)gmail.com)>

 

 After my issues with my feeder tank becoming blocked with silicone gasket

 material, I have cleaned the tanks and header tank.

 

 Now I'd like to install an in-line filter between each wing-tank and the

 header tank.  (I already have a gascolator between the header tank and the

 fuel pump, so the purpose of the in-line filters is really just to stop any

 goo getting to the header tank and blocking the fuel supply line to the

 engine).

 

 Are there any in-line filters that are NOT recommended?  I've heard that

 plastic in-line filters are not advisable.  Metal sounds safe, but is not

 easily inspectable.  Glass doesn't sound so safe.   What are folks using?

 ACS has a couple of different options but none (except the most expensive

 one "Micron 10") come with fuel flow and pressure drop specs.

 

 

 ===========

  -

 nes-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List

 ===========

 MS -

 k">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 e -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

images.jpeg

Description:

Filesize:

2.89 KB

Viewed:

10724 Time(s)

_________________
Vance Simons
Post Falls, Idaho
Zenith 701

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:36 am Post subject: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?

The glass tube can be replaced with a 7/8" OD .058" 6061 tube of the same length.  I have been using that set up since the first one I bought developed a crack in the glass the first night I had it installed.  Never had a problem with aluminum.  Easy to inspect by simply disassembling.  

 

john h

Kolb MKIII - 3,280.0 hours

Titus, Alabama

 

 

I have used these on three differ airplanes and never had a problem with them. Easy to inspect and easy to change filters in. 

 



  [quote][b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:09 pm Post subject: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?

Folks,

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions regarding filters. 

Guy, regarding the finger filters, do you happen have a picture of how they are installed? My wing tanks have no strainers to remove water in the fuel but it's something I've been wanting to install. 

Sacha

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:42 pm Post subject: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?

Vance, As far as I can tell from their website, Purolator no longer makes the Proline filter or the Clearview filter that preceded it. You can find a version of the filter at auto parts stores under the Mr. Gasket brand. You have to be really careful as they market two kinds and the quality difference between them is dramatic. You can tell them apart by the center section that threads into the ends. The cheapos, that I wouldn't put on ANYTHING, much less an aircraft, has a flat molded piece about 1/8" thick in the center. It has no way to seal the filter element and on some the threads are so poorly molded that the ends are not held parallel so the seals are very unevenly compressed against the glass body of the filter. This model usually comes with plastic barbed fittings to accommodate three sizes of fuel line. The chrome plating on the ends usually has so much build up on the thread that you cannot substitute aluminum or brass barbed fittings for the plastic.  The better quality version has a round center section and a jam nut to seal the filter. They also have one piece ends that have the barbed fitting as a unit. Unfortunately they are only available in 5/16" and 3/8" sizes. Bottom line, any Clearview style filter from the auto parts stores has to be carefully inspected to make sure it is robust enough to be put on an aircraft. If you cannot tell while it's in the package, ask the counter person to take it out of the package for you. If they won't do it, go to another store. Inspecting the filter before buying will save you the hassle of having to take it back later.

 

Rick Girard





On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com (uuccio(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com (uuccio(at)gmail.com)>

  

 

Folks,

 Thanks a lot for all the suggestions regarding filters.

 Guy, regarding the finger filters, do you happen have a picture of how they are installed? My wing tanks have no strainers to remove water in the fuel but it's something I've been wanting to install.

 Sacha

 

 ===========

  -

 nes-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List

 ===========

 MS -

 k">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 e -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



	




-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx

 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:03 pm Post subject: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?

No picture. The finger strainers are pipe thread reducers attached to 

course mesh finger size screens. The male is threaded into the Kitfox's 

fiberglass tank, bedded with 2-part polysulfide sealant. (Yes, the 

expensive stuff. As an aside for all you other guys debating RTV. I 

tried everything in the auto and plumbing store trying to seal 100LL 

fittings. The only thing that worked absolutely reliably was the ACS 

2-part polysulfide.) I then have a male pipe to barb adapter threaded 

into the finger female. Hose attaches to the barb. Very straight-forward 

if you can use pipe threads in your tank.



Guy Buchanan

Ramona, CA

Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded

Now a glider pilot, too.



On 6/28/2014 3:07 PM, Sacha wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Folks,

 Thanks a lot for all the suggestions regarding filters.

 Guy, regarding the finger filters, do you happen have a picture of how they are installed? My wing tanks have no strainers to remove water in the fuel but it's something I've been wanting to install.

 Sacha

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

dougsnash

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:09 am Post subject: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?

I was figuratively biting my tongue, hoping this topic would go away without killing anyone but seeing so many responses in the Daily Digest I decided to add my two cents.  Forgive me if I come across as a bit pushy on this topic as fuel filters and aircraft fuel system design are a bit of a pet peeve of mine.



 Based on standard aircraft design, there should be a coarse finger screen on the outlet of each tank, this is filter number one which keeps large chunks of debris from entering the fuel delivery system.   Each tank should have a sediment drain to check for and eliminate debris and water which can accumulate in the tank.  At the lowest point in the fuel system there needs to be another sediment drain as this is also where water can accumulate.  A properly designed gascolator should be installed in the system, often at the lowest point in lieu of a low point drain.  The gascolator should be the type which has a sediment bowl with drain and a fairly fine mesh screen in the top which acts as filter number two.  Finally, the fuel pumps used on Rotax engines have a fine mesh screen in them (according to Phil Lockwood) which acts as a final filter before the fuel enters the carburetors.  If particulate can get through these three filters, then it will go through the engine without hurting anything.

So essentially, a properly designed fuel system has three stages of filtration.  Why would you want to add another level of filtration to your fuel system?  



In his talk on 912 maintenance, Phil Lockwood  tells an entertaining story about getting a bad batch of fuel in his older carburated car.  The fuel had some kind of very fine particulate suspended in it which plugged his fuel filter and made for very poor performance, eventually killing the engine.  Phil replaced the fuel filter and the new one plugged again within a few minutes as he still had the bad fuel in his fuel tank.  Since he was in the middle of nowhere and did not have another fuel filter, Phil removed the fuel filter all together until he reached his destination and the car ran fine for the remainder of the trip.  As long as the particulate is small enough to not plug the carburetor jets, it is not going to hurt anything in the engine.  However, if a fine particulate accumulates on a too fine of filtration media, the particulate could interrupt fuel flow to the engine.



Fuel systems in homebuilts/ultralights/LSAs are one place where we need to pay close attention to what has been done in the certified world.  Adding components into the fuel system where they should not be can be dangerous and should be done only with extreme caution. If your aircraft fuel system is not set up according to standard design,  that should be your goal, not adding fuel filters for the sake of  adding fuel filters.  Of course, fuel injection systems like that on the 912iS is another issue but I am not experienced with the iS installation so cannot comment on its filtration requirements.

There, I will get down off my soapbox.  I hope I have given you guys something to think about without coming across as too preachy.



Doug M

CH-701, Rotax 912UL  



 [quote][b]

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:43 am Post subject: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?

................and don’t forget the thimble filter in the electric Pierburg fuel pumps x 2 on the 914 engine.

Regards

Bob Harrison  Europa /Rotax 914

 

From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MacDonald Doug

Sent: 29 June 2014 14:08

To: rotax list

Subject: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?

 

I was figuratively biting my tongue, hoping this topic would go away without killing anyone but seeing so many responses in the Daily Digest I decided to add my two cents.  Forgive me if I come across as a bit pushy on this topic as fuel filters and aircraft fuel system design are a bit of a pet peeve of mine.



 



Based on standard aircraft design, there should be a coarse finger screen on the outlet of each tank, this is filter number one which keeps large chunks of debris from entering the fuel delivery system.  Each tank should have a sediment drain to check for and eliminate debris and water which can accumulate in the tank.  At the lowest point in the fuel system there needs to be another sediment drain as this is also where water can accumulate.  A properly designed gascolator should be installed in the system, often at the lowest point in lieu of a low point drain.  The gascolator should be the type which has a sediment bowl with drain and a fairly fine mesh screen in the top which acts as filter number two.  Finally, the fuel pumps used on Rotax engines have a fine mesh screen in them (according to Phil Lockwood) which acts as a final filter before the fuel enters the carburetors.  If particulate can get through these three filters, then it will go through the engine without hurting anything.



 



So essentially, a properly designed fuel system has three stages of filtration.  Why would you want to add another level of filtration to your fuel system?  



 



In his talk on 912 maintenance, Phil Lockwood tells an entertaining story about getting a bad batch of fuel in his older carburated car.  The fuel had some kind of very fine particulate suspended in it which plugged his fuel filter and made for very poor performance, eventually killing the engine.  Phil replaced the fuel filter and the new one plugged again within a few minutes as he still had the bad fuel in his fuel tank.  Since he was in the middle of nowhere and did not have another fuel filter, Phil removed the fuel filter all together until he reached his destination and the car ran fine for the remainder of the trip.  As long as the particulate is small enough to not plug the carburetor jets, it is not going to hurt anything in the engine.  However, if a fine particulate accumulates on a too fine of filtration media, the particulate could interrupt fuel flow to the engine.



 



Fuel systems in homebuilts/ultralights/LSAs are one place where we need to pay close attention to what has been done in the certified world.  Adding components into the fuel system where they should not be can be dangerous and should be done only with extreme caution. If your aircraft fuel system is not set up according to standard design, that should be your goal, not adding fuel filters for the sake of adding fuel filters.  Of course, fuel injection systems like that on the 912iS is another issue but I am not experienced with the iS installation so cannot comment on its filtration requirements.



 



There, I will get down off my soapbox.  I hope I have given you guys something to think about without coming across as too preachy.



 



Doug M



CH-701, Rotax 912UL  



 	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7

  [quote][b]

VIXEN

Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 35

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:47 am Post subject: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?

I fly a kitfox 912 ul and have the exact fuel system you describe. 

 in 400 hours never had a problem. 

 take care

 Don On Jun 29, 2014 6:14 AM, "MacDonald Doug" <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com (dougsnash(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:[quote] I was figuratively biting my tongue, hoping this topic would go away without killing anyone but seeing so many responses in the Daily Digest I decided to add my two cents.  Forgive me if I come across as a bit pushy on this topic as fuel filters and aircraft fuel system design are a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

 



 Based on standard aircraft design, there should be a coarse finger screen on the outlet of each tank, this is filter number one which keeps large chunks of debris from entering the fuel delivery system.   Each tank should have a sediment drain to check for and eliminate debris and water which can accumulate in the tank.  At the lowest point in the fuel system there needs to be another sediment drain as this is also where water can accumulate.  A properly designed gascolator should be installed in the system, often at the lowest point in lieu of a low point drain.  The gascolator should be the type which has a sediment bowl with drain and a fairly fine mesh screen in the top which acts as filter number two.  Finally, the fuel pumps used on Rotax engines have a fine mesh screen in them (according to Phil Lockwood) which acts as a final filter before the fuel enters the carburetors.  If particulate can get through these three filters, then it will go through the engine without hurting anything.

 

 So essentially, a properly designed fuel system has three stages of filtration.  Why would you want to add another level of filtration to your fuel system?  



 



In his talk on 912 maintenance, Phil Lockwood  tells an entertaining story about getting a bad batch of fuel in his older carburated car.  The fuel had some kind of very fine particulate suspended in it which plugged his fuel filter and made for very poor performance, eventually killing the engine.  Phil replaced the fuel filter and the new one plugged again within a few minutes as he still had the bad fuel in his fuel tank.  Since he was in the middle of nowhere and did not have another fuel filter, Phil removed the fuel filter all together until he reached his destination and the car ran fine for the remainder of the trip.  As long as the particulate is small enough to not plug the carburetor jets, it is not going to hurt anything in the engine.  However, if a fine particulate accumulates on a too fine of filtration media, the particulate could interrupt fuel flow to the engine.

 



 Fuel systems in homebuilts/ultralights/LSAs are one place where we need to pay close attention to what has been done in the certified world.  Adding components into the fuel system where they should not be can be dangerous and should be done only with extreme caution. If your aircraft fuel system is not set up according to standard design,  that should be your goal, not adding fuel filters for the sake of  adding fuel filters.  Of course, fuel injection systems like that on the 912iS is another issue but I am not experienced with the iS installation so cannot comment on its filtration requirements.



 



There, I will get down off my soapbox.  I hope I have given you guys something to think about without coming across as too preachy.

 



 Doug M

CH-701, Rotax 912UL  



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:42 pm Post subject: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?

Forgive me if I come across as a bit pushy on this topic as fuel filters and aircraft fuel system design are a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

Not at all, I’m here to learn and constructive comments are always welcome.

 



Based on standard aircraft design, there should be 

<![if !supportLists]>1)     <![endif]>a coarse finger screen on the outlet of each tank, this is filter number one which keeps large chunks of debris from entering the fuel delivery system.  

<![if !supportLists]>2)    <![endif]>Each tank should have a sediment drain to check for and eliminate debris and water which can accumulate in the tank.  

<![if !supportLists]>3)    <![endif]>At the lowest point in the fuel system there needs to be another sediment drain as this is also where water can accumulate.  A properly designed gascolator should be installed in the system, often at the lowest point in lieu of a low point drain.  The gascolator should be the type which has a sediment bowl with drain and a fairly fine mesh screen in the top which acts as filter number two.  

<![if !supportLists]>4)    <![endif]>Finally, the fuel pumps used on Rotax engines have a fine mesh screen in them (according to Phil Lockwood) which acts as a final filter before the fuel enters the carburetors.  If particulate can get through these three filters, then it will go through the engine without hurting anything.



 



So essentially, a properly designed fuel system has three stages of filtration.  Why would you want to add another level of filtration to your fuel system?  

 

I have 3 and 4 and suppose I wanted to install 1 (finger screens) and 2 (tank drain).  My wing tanks are made of epoxy resin that’s a few mm thick.   How would you go about installing such fittings?   I managed in the past to install a tank vent by threading a hole in the wing tank and screwing in a ¼” NPT hose barb, with a counter-nut on the inside of the tank.  But what if installing a counter-nut is not feasible?  Are there any alternative methods?  What kind of glue/sealant should be used?  Would one use Alum Flange Fittings?   I have zero experience in these matters and need some guidance as to best practice.

 	  Quote: 	
		   	


  [quote][b]

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:06 pm Post subject: in-line fuel filters - can you recommend any?

If yours is like mine the tank exit is       buried in the lower aft corner of the tank. This makes it very       difficult to secondarily reinforce, since it's hard to get enough       bond area for the reinforcement. Best would be to adhere a tapered       1/4" thick G-10 tapping plate where you want the exit, then cover       that with about 10 plies of 8oz fiberglass, tapering or sequencing       so that the edges taper. This would give you a little less than       1/2" to tap into for the NPT finger strainers. (If you want to       just glue a tapping plate externally, you'll have to extend well       onto the tank sidewall to get enough adherence area to enable you       do drill and tap the plate. Unfortunately the drilling and/or       tapping process usually pries the tapping plate off the tank       anyway. Been there...)

       

       Bulkhead fittings usually make you move well away from the       edge/corner of the tank, making you loose capacity. Unfortunately,       in this case I can't think of an easy solution.

       

       As to sealant, again I would use ACS 2-part polysulfide.

       

       Guy Buchanan

       Ramona, CA

       Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded

       Now a glider pilot, too.

       

       

       

       On 7/1/2014 4:41 PM, Sacha wrote:

     

     [quote]But          what if installing a counter-nut is not feasible?  Are there any         alternative methods?  What kind of glue/sealant should be used?          Would one use Alum Flange Fittings?   I have zero experience in         these matters and need some guidance as to best practice.[b]

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RotaxEngines-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum