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Wiring Harness

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dsherburn

Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 7

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: Wiring Harness

What are thoughts on creating the electrical wiring harness? I've attached  the embrionic schematic (lot's of final design, editing and cleanup to do) just  to convey the simplicity of my Zenith CH750 electrical system.

 Specifically, should I:

    mock-up  (chalk) an outline of the plane, run the requisite wires,    label and bundle them (using expandable sleeving or spiral wrap)? ie.    complete an entire harness....   
or, just run wires one at a time and tie wrap and sheath with an    expandable sleeve or spiral wrap them once all of the circuits are wired and    tested?   
what's best to use in as far as a spiral wrap or expandable sleeve? I've    heard the term "snakeskin" used.... Much of the drawing/design/symbols in the attached was gleaned from the  AeroElectric Connection....

  

 Regards,

 Dan Sherburn

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email(at)jaredyates.com
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:59 pm Post subject: Wiring Harness

In my case I ran the wires one at a time, building a bundle with wrapping thread ties as necessary to keep the wires parallel. I doubt you would save any time by trying to make a separate harness like the production companies use, unless you are going to start producing them. 





On Dec 30, 2011, at 19:16, "Dan Sherburn" <dsherburn(at)att.net (dsherburn(at)att.net)> wrote:



[quote]       What are thoughts on creating the electrical wiring harness? I've attached  the embrionic schematic (lot's of final design, editing and cleanup to do) just  to convey the simplicity of my Zenith CH750 electrical system.

 Specifically, should I:

    mock-up  (chalk) an outline of the plane, run the requisite wires,    label and bundle them (using expandable sleeving or spiral wrap)? ie.    complete an entire harness....   
or, just run wires one at a time and tie wrap and sheath with an    expandable sleeve or spiral wrap them once all of the circuits are wired and    tested?   
what's best to use in as far as a spiral wrap or expandable sleeve? I've    heard the term "snakeskin" used.... Much of the drawing/design/symbols in the attached was gleaned from the  AeroElectric Connection....

  

 Regards,

 Dan Sherburn

  

  

  

 

<Overview.PDF>

[b]

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:57 am Post subject: Wiring Harness

<![if !supportLists]>1.       <![endif]>Seems like more work than necessary.  Getting all the physical position relationships seem tough.  Remember not all the wires have the same end point locations.

<![if !supportLists]>2.       <![endif]>This is what I did and worked quite well.  Just remember to add a little extra for service loops and to give you some flexibility when you go back to start tying up your bundles and installing adel clamps to hold them in place.  I used nylon tie wraps with large open loops so that it would hold the bundles in their relative position and it was easy to insert additional wire.   When I was done, I came back with lacing and tied the bundles and cut the tie wraps.   Then I installed a few adel clamps to keep the bundles secured.

bob

 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Sherburn

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 7:17 PM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Wiring Harness

 

What are thoughts on creating the electrical wiring harness? I've attached the embrionic schematic (lot's of final design, editing and cleanup to do) just to convey the simplicity of my Zenith CH750 electrical system.



Specifically, should I:

mock-up  (chalk) an outline of the plane, run the requisite wires, label and bundle them (using expandable sleeving or spiral wrap)? ie. complete an entire harness....
or, just run wires one at a time and tie wrap and sheath with an expandable sleeve or spiral wrap them once all of the circuits are wired and tested?
what's best to use in as far as a spiral wrap or expandable sleeve? I've heard the term "snakeskin" used....

Much of the drawing/design/symbols in the attached was gleaned from the AeroElectric Connection....



 



Regards,



Dan Sherburn



 



 



 



  [quote][b]

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

peter(at)sportingaero.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:29 am Post subject: Wiring Harness

Hi Dan,

     

     I find drawing different views helps. You already have a schematic,     a location drawing could be useful to allow you to site the     components and figure out where the wires will run. You will likely     place the starter and master solenoids close together, so it will     also give you a feel for how long each wire will be. Draw what the     bus bars will look like (will you use a fuse block?), to give     yourself an idea of the lay out. 

     

     I start by mounting the fuse blocks/buses/breakers and start running     wires. It always takes more wire than you think once it is tied     down, so do that as you go - very frustrating to cut a wire too     short! I have used expandable sleeve, but don't really like spiral     wrap unless anti chafe protection is needed. If using expandable     sleeve you may have to start feeding wires from the beginning as it     may not be possible to feed it over any spurs. If you don't use a     sleeve you could use spring clips to hold things in place until     everything is run and then tie up with lacing cord.

     

     Hope this helps, Peter

     

     BTW, I'm not sure your alternator output will be very useful wired     in as shown - perhaps it should go to the main bus or battery     contactor?

     

     

     On 31/12/2011 00:16, Dan Sherburn wrote:     [quote]                            What are thoughts on creating the electrical wiring harness?         I've attached the embrionic schematic (lot's of final design,         editing and cleanup to do) just to convey the simplicity of my         Zenith CH750 electrical system.

       Specifically, should I:

                mock-up  (chalk) an outline of the plane, run the requisite           wires, label and bundle them (using expandable sleeving or           spiral wrap)? ie. complete an entire harness....         
or, just run wires one at a time and tie wrap and sheath           with an expandable sleeve or spiral wrap them once all of the           circuits are wired and tested?         
what's best to use in as far as a spiral wrap or expandable           sleeve? I've heard the term "snakeskin" used....              Much of the drawing/design/symbols in the attached was         gleaned from the AeroElectric Connection....

        

       Regards,

       Dan Sherburn

        

        

        

     [b]

dsherburn

Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 7

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:21 am Post subject: Wiring Harness

Peter,

 Oops....you are correct on the alternator wire. The drawing should have had  the output wire of the alternator going to the other side of the starter  contactor. Thanks for the catch!

 In as far as wiring, I'm thinking you are correct, in as far as the bundle.   I'm using a fuse block as the buss and will start running device wires  individually from there and then bundle. 

 As Bob suggests in his book, I'm creating a "wire-book" that has component  location drawings, as well as detailed connection drawings I get from  manufacturers (like the strobe/

 position lights). Thanks again for the note.

 Dan

  

  

 [quote]   ---

jimk(at)hdiss.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:05 pm Post subject: Wiring Harness

Dan,I am just starting my wiring diagram on a Tundra w/ IO-360. I have decided to follow Bob's suggestion to use the Z-12 schematic (dual alternators, single battery) and I'm assembling the various parts. While I have worked on the wiring of two Glastars I have never done anything like this and I am looking to our group for ideas. I have Bob's book and continue to study it. His statement about the difference between a 'Schematic' drawing and a 'mechanical' drawing has really hit home. Just knowing which components belong in the engine compartment (contactors, shunts, current limiters, ??) and which to mount on the cockpit side of the firewall and then which to mount on the panel itself would be a great start on doing a mechanical drawing. These thoughts may seem vary 'logical' to those with experience but no so to this novice.

Anyway, I sure appreciate your questions and the answers that have come forth. Since I could not find your schematic on the list I look forward to you sending it direct. I will begin to check the archives for topics on this.

 Jim Kinninger

jimk(at)hdiss.net (jimk(at)hdiss.net)



 

 



 [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:17 am Post subject: Wiring Harness

At 12:02 AM 1/2/2012, you wrote:

Dan,

I am just starting my wiring diagram on a Tundra w/ IO-360. I have 

decided to follow Bob's suggestion to use the Z-12 schematic (dual 

alternators, single battery) and I'm assembling the various parts. 

While I have worked on the wiring of two Glastars I have never done 

anything like this and I am looking to our group for ideas. I have 

Bob's book and continue to study it. His statement about the 

difference between a 'Schematic' drawing and a 'mechanical' drawing 

has really hit home. Just knowing which components belong in the 

engine compartment (contactors, shunts, current limiters, ??) and 

which to mount on the cockpit side of the firewall and then which to 

mount on the panel itself would be a great start on doing a 

mechanical drawing. These thoughts may seem vary 'logical' to those 

with experience but no so to this novice.

Anyway, I sure appreciate your questions and the answers that have 

come forth. Since I could not find your schematic on the list I look 

forward to you sending it direct. I will begin to check the archives 

for topics on this.

Jim Kinninger



    Consider this also:



    I don't think I've written about this before but

    it was offered in most if not all of my weekend

    seminars.



    One problem with crafting bundles 'in place' is

    getting the first few wires to hold the shape and

    routing in the airplane.  Lay out your complex bundle

    pathways by laying down supporting guide-wires fabricated from

    10AWG single strand copper from Home Depot or similar

    supplier. Support the guide-wire on small plastic clamps

    using the same holes that will ultimately mount the

    final compliment of support clamps.



    Build your bundles onto these guide wires using tye-wraps

    to bring it all together. Cut of the older wraps as new ones

    are added. When you're all done, it's a simple matter to

    put the final set of wraps or ties on the bundle after

    you've cut the guide-wire from the bundle interior. The

    temporary support clamps for the guide-wire are replaced

    with the real clamps using the same mounting holes.



    Building on top of a guide-wire "skeleton" can go a

    long way to having your finished wire bundles look like

    they came off a well crafted form board.

   Bob . . .

dsherburn

Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 7

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: Wiring Harness

Great idea on how to construct the wire harnes.....Thanks for the

information!

Dan

---

aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: Wiring Harness

Radio Shack sels (or usedc to, anyway...) temporary velcro wire bundle tie straps.  Very, very convenient and reuseable.



Glen Matejcek

ronr(at)advanceddesign.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:45 am Post subject: Wiring Harness

How about building the harness on a template. That way it can be built 

outside the aircraft tested and inspected before instalation.



Regards



Ron Raby



Lancair ES

---

N20DG

Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 61
Location: lancaster, texas

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:36 am Post subject: Wiring Harness

Home Depot and Lowes have them

 Dick

  

  In a message dated 1/3/2012 8:37:11 A.M. Central Standard Time,  aerobubba(at)earthlink.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  temporary velcro wire bundle tie  straps 	


 [quote][b]

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: Wiring Harness

In a message dated 1/3/2012 8:37:11 A.M. Central Standard

Time, aerobubba(at)earthlink.net writes:

		temporary velcro wire bundle tie straps

			I have found that the hook and loop straps used by

many supermarkets to wrap leaf lettuce and other produce are great for

temporary bundle ties, and they are cheap.  ☺



			Roger

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:09 pm Post subject: Wiring Harness

At 09:37 AM 1/3/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



How about building the harness on a template. That way it can be 

built outside the aircraft tested and inspected before instalation.


	


   That IS how the 'big' guys do it. But they often build the proof

   of concept harness in the airplane, take it out and build

   a form-board to match it.  Even with full 3-D CAD systems, it's

   difficult to build a first-article that really fits the airplane

   the way the craftsmen would like it.

   Bob . . .

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:19 am Post subject: Wiring Harness

In other words, using  a template or form board is a mass production 

technique.  Kind of the opposite of what we are doing in the OBAM world.



Conversely, it would seem reasonable  to think we can do a superior job 

with our hand built, single craftsman approach.  Of course our amateur 

skills may cancel out any skilled craftsman advantage.



Bill "reflecting on the joys of OBAM aircraft" Watson

 	  Quote: 	
		  >

> How about building the harness on a template. That way it can be 

> built outside the aircraft tested and inspected before instalation.



   That IS how the 'big' guys do it. But they often build the proof

   of concept harness in the airplane, take it out and build

   a form-board to match it.  Even with full 3-D CAD systems, it's

   difficult to build a first-article that really fits the airplane

   the way the craftsmen would like it.

   Bob . . .

ronr(at)advanceddesign.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:29 am Post subject: Wiring Harness

Hi Bill, Bob



Actually we build both high volume and low volume harnesses at my company. 

Almost all of the harnesses we build use a harness board. Non of the harness 

drawings, of the thousands we build were developed with 3d cad, all were 

done in 2d. Attached is a small harness drawing with a wire run list in pdf 

format for everyone to look at. Qty 2,  4 x 8 sheets of plywood end to end 

could simulate the fusalage of most planes. My intension is to give people 

ideas that may help. I am not trying to sell anything.

the link is to my website and shows some pictures of completed harnesses.



http://www.advanceddesign.com/products_harnesscable.html



Regards



Ron Raby

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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:44 pm Post subject: Wiring Harness

Nice!

What strikes me about your low volume capabilities is what a colleague 

of mine coined some years ago, "Mass Customization".  The ability to 

take advantage of specialization and mass production down to quantity = 1.



Bill



On 1/4/2012 1:15 PM, Ron Raby wrote:

[quote] Hi Bill, Bob



 Actually we build both high volume and low volume harnesses at my 

 company. Almost all of the harnesses we build use a harness board. Non 

 of the harness drawings, of the thousands we build were developed with 

 3d cad, all were done in 2d. Attached is a small harness drawing with 

 a wire run list in pdf format for everyone to look at. Qty 2,  4 x 8 

 sheets of plywood end to end could simulate the fusalage of most 

 planes. My intension is to give people ideas that may help. I am not 

 trying to sell anything.

 the link is to my website and shows some pictures of completed harnesses.



 http://www.advanceddesign.com/products_harnesscable.html



 Regards



 Ron Raby

 ---

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