gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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 Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: Why use starter contactor? (sky is falling) |
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| Quote: | From: "John D. Heath" <altoq(at)cebridge.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Why use starter contactor?
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| Quote: | -- TWIMC (Which is probaly only me),
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| Quote: | (1) Electrical Solenoid engaged starters, as used on Lycoming,
Chevrolet,BMW, and Porsche, do stick.
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Some people have real bad luck; My experience is the opposite and
the engineers told me the SkyTec will not sick (see their web site).
Any of your claimed occurrences happen with a SkyTec or B&C? No
>(2) Solenoid engaged starters are disengaged by a spring and an over
| Quote: | running mechanism in the starter gear.
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Yes A big fat spring and mechanical advantage plus back spin
... assists in the retraction.
>(3) I have personally seen three out of the four named, stick .
You said that already, twice now. You left off all kinds of info.
Lycoming? Bendix style? SkyTec? B&C? More info please.
Lycomings usually had old Bendix style starters made by
Prestolite or Delco. Bendix does not equal SkyTec
| Quote: | (4) They stick and continue to crank the engine, they stick and don't
crank the engine, and all modes of stick in between.
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Look you have an agenda, but you provided ZERO information. I
have been flying for 12,000 hours and have worked on cars for 30
years. Yes starters stall? So what? Can you tell me what that has to
do with anything. When I was flying Freight or giving flight instruction,
I was flying a fleet of over 30 planes in numbers. All the problems you
claim are hard to believe and sound sensational and emotional.
I NEVER, NEVER HAD A STARTER STICK. That does not mean
much, but lightweight car type starters on airplanes have only
been around less than 20 years. However in that 20 years the issue
of starter STICK is old news. I know it is hard to get people such as
yourself, whose mind is made up, to be convinced, but if you are
honest with yourself and look at the facts and service history of
modern starters, you will see your opinion of the past does not
represent the now or future. If it makes you happy, add extra stuff.
| Quote: | (5) They stick when they are new or old, clean or dirty but mostly they
stick because they are misaligned or have not been lubricated.
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WE GET IT, THEY (what ever THEY are) Stick. I just ask you give
some examples with details. My guess they don't apply to a SkyTec
or B&C style starters.
| Quote: | (6) One of these starters that fail in the "CRANK the engine mode" with
the +12VDC wired directly to the solenoid has a great big wire as big
around as your index finger HOT and you can't turn it off.
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So what do the FEW MILLION cars and trucks do all over the world.
What is you point? Did you think of turning the ENGINE OFF?
I can see you are convinced that every car on the road is WRONG.
OK that is cool, but I think you are making a mountain out of a mole
hill. The Robinson R22 helicopter is wired w/o a FW relay.
| Quote: | (7) There are many light weight relays capable of eliminating this
problem by attaching the +12VDC first to it and then on to the starter
solenoid. No device that controls the starter directly through its
solenoid control circuit can do this.
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WHAT! Dude I could not disagree more. Prove it  The reason for
those 3/4 Lb solenoids on airplanes is they had BENDIX starters with
no integrated solenoid or contactor (relay). First they did not need a
solenoid because they where SPUN out when the starter was spun.
They where the only kind found on most GA planes up to 20 years
ago. They are notorious for sticking. The Bendix starters NEEDED
a firewall relay/contactor; that is why we still have them today.
Big firewall solenoids are also problematic.
The reason for using the firewall solenoid like Bob calls out and
Vans aircraft calls for is standardization with old starters. BOB
and Van's aircraft do not control the type of starter the builder uses,
and so the OLD WAY works with everything, old and new. CLEARLY
you don't believe me, CALL SKY TEC starters. They will calm you
down and straighten you out. Things have changed.
It is OK, many people like the security blanket of the extra switch.
| Quote: | ( I have had multiple experiences with these type failures. Allow me
to pass these experiences on to you and eliminate the time and
aggravation it would take for you to accumulate them yourself. Use the
information as you will.
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OH MY GOSH, you have repeated yourself 5 times. You think THEY
stick. OK,
How about some specific info: Starter model, Aircraft and what the
problem was (starter, firewall solenoid). You don't give any more info
than you have seen a starter stick. A SkyTec? B&C? Doubt it.
Sorry I hear no facts and really doubt it applies to SkyTec.
No offense but I think you exaggerate a lot in your mind. However I
respect your fear of starters. I have researched this and you are
living in the old days of starters.
Your comments give no basis in facts. First a firewall solenoid is
another thing to fail. Second the solenoid and contactor on the starter
is very capable with out help. You are adding a device that can stick
on its own, more than the starter itself.
Also if a starter sticks on start, SHUT DOWN the engine. There is
no need to panic and make this a big deal. Does a black cloud follow
you and it rains on all you vacations? I mean your story of impending
disaster is really over stated when it comes to starters.
My opinion from experience is starters rarely stick and modern non
Bendix ones less then never. From taking engineers at the biggest
starter maker (SkyTec) and by their web site, QUOTE:
"Since Sky-Tec starters do not use mechanical Bendix drives to actuate
the starter, this is actually nearly impossible for a Sky-Tec starter to keep
itself engaged with the aircraft ring gear."
Also Robinson R44 helicopter is certified with NO firewall starter
Solenoid. (Good enough for the FAA)
>(9) (Even you did not want to keep it in the records)
Boy I guess you told me. Please reply with real information. I just
don't believe anything you said has to do with a SkyTec, B&C,
NOT: Prestolite; Electrosystems; Lamar; Delco.
Again Murphy's law but I think with your luck you better stay on the
Ground. Lol
Cheers George.
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