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low idle and fuel pressure issues.
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Bcolombo(at)twcny.rr.com
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:50 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

Ok first off I jumped into my 29 for the first flight since the end of last fall a few days back, this is the first time I have flown it in cold weather(25 deg) When I first fired it up I notice it only came up to about 31% and not the 35-39% it should be at idle. Egt was perfect, actually never passed 600 on start and was at about 450 at idle. I figure it is just because it is so cold out. I did all my run ups and everything was perfect. I took off and climbed out, at about 7000' I noticed my fuel pressure start to drop. No drop in rpm and no change in egt.. I was running about 40-50 at 100% then down to like 30 at 90% and like 22-25 at 80%.When I pull it to idle it drops to about 13-14. I am trying to figure out if this is ok/normal or possibly related to the temp. I figure the low idle is because of the cold temp, but i am far from a 29 expert. The Turbine runs smooth, cool, starts fast and the slam test goes from idle to 100% in 8 sec. Any ideas what is going on. Should I adjust the idle up and if so is it just a stop nut on the throttle arm or is there more to it. Any clue what might be up with the fuel pressure issue and do those numbers seem to be about normal. Thanks in advance.

Brian Colombo N6235M


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ca6209(at)flash.net
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

Check the fuel filter 1st.
Gary

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Bcolombo(at)twcny.rr.com
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:37 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

gary, I am doing that tonight. If I remove the fuel filter housing will the
fuel in the main tank run out, should I pull the fire cock to shut it off at
the tank? Any tips on removal, inspection? thanks
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czech6(at)kellin.net
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:41 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

What was the idle when you returned to the airport?

What does it idle at when you fly it other times?

Max fuel pressure is .79. So thats good.

I have not seen a minimum fuel pressure listed.

As long as the EGT is normal,(less than 700) & Fuel pressure is above "0",
throttle response is normal, it should be good to go.

Does the fule pressure respond properly when you push up the throttle?

Have you checked the Isolation valve operation lately? (1st flight of the
day.)
Not that it is your problem, but when the high pressure system goes in the
toilet, you want to make sure the isolation vavle works!!

Have you changed the filter lately? I don't think clogging is the problem,
but if you did change it, there maybe a little air in the system?? Guessing
now. Bleed the low pressure lines. If there was much air it wouldn't start.

In flight, turn off the low pressure pump and see what the pressure does.

Have you drained the fuel sump?

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schwartzcompany(at)worldn
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:42 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

CK
1. Fuel filter
2. High pressure and low pressure pump output
3. Fuel controller

Bob Schwartz
Email: schwartzcompany(at)worldnet.att.net

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czech6(at)kellin.net
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:43 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

Yes, close the fire cock. Yes the fuel will run out.
Chances are you will need to bleed the fuel lines after you do that. So the
motor may not start due to air.
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schwartzcompany(at)worldn
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:43 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

put emergency fuel shut off lever in cockpit on!!!! Before opening the fuel
filter canister

Robert E. Schwartz
President
THE SCHWARTZ COMPANY MIDWEST
Commercial Real Estate Services
2406 East Pleasant Street
Davenport, Iowa USA 52803
Tel: (563) 322-2228 Fax: (563) 359-7769 Cell: (563) 940-8600
Email: schwartzcompany(at)worldnet.att.net

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Ernie



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

Different systems at work here. Idle control valve is going to manage
idle, that is adjusted via a knurled knob on the fuel controller. Once
you engage the throttle then the HP system is goverened by the
Barometric Control Unit. Fuel pressure is measured just beyond the HP
fuel pump, so you should never see a change in fuel pressure do to
anything that the HP fuel system would do. The decrease in indicated
pressure may be due to the effects of cold on the transducer itself or
the viscosity of the fuel itself.

Bill is right on though, make sure your ISO valve is working and
understand the emergency procedures for operating the throttle with
the ISO valve engaged.

Not bad aye Bill, didnt even look in the manual Smile

Ernie

On 3/21/06, Bill <czech6(at)kellin.net> wrote:
[quote]

Yes, close the fire cock. Yes the fuel will run out.
Chances are you will need to bleed the fuel lines after you do that. So the
motor may not start due to air.
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ca6209(at)flash.net
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

Sounds like you have seen the answer on fuel shut off.
Do you have the tool to bleed the air?
Gary

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Bcolombo(at)twcny.rr.com
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:02 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

Bill, Idle was about 31% after my "afterlanding checklist" was done and I
began to taxi back to the hanger. Normal idle during the summer months was
about 36% I never get near the Max fuel pressure but the min is .12 it is
right around there at idle. I checked the isolation switch first flight and
i got a slight rise in rpm but not any egt. again it was very cold today and
i only switch it on for a few sec(maybe to fast to see a egt change) As i
throttle up the fuel pressure goes up, but when I got to about 7000' it was
dropping some. always within range 12-79 I have not checked the filter
recently but only about 5 hrs on the plane since last annual in aug. EGT was
always within limits even a bit low. I will drain the sump tonight and check
the filter. I did not do it last time. any tricks to doing it? thanks

Brian
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schwartzcompany(at)worldn
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:08 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

12-14 at idle (35) seems ok. At 100% you should be at max 79. maybe not
event that high, since that is a max. but certainly up in the 40 to 60
range I would think. Bill's more of an expert than me. See what he says

bob
Email: schwartzcompany(at)worldnet.att.net

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:11 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

Filter should be checked every annual as a regular item.

bob


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czech6(at)kellin.net
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

I'm impressed grasshopper!

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Ernie



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:20 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

Are you coming down to S&F?

Ernie

On 3/21/06, Bill <czech6(at)kellin.net> wrote:
[quote]

I'm impressed grasshopper!

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czech6(at)kellin.net
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:21 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

I wouldn't change the idle set at this point.
At idle, you won't see much EGT rise with Iso on. Set about 80% and then
turn it on and let it stabilize. If RPM goes up, EGT will follow. Move the
throttle slow in each direction a small amount to make sure power follows.

Draining the sump, stuff paper towels in your arm pits if you don't have the
right tool. Drain a half gallon at least. The Czechs drain 6 liters.

If you change or inspect the filter, and if you don't have the tool to bleed
the fuel lines, let me know. We can tell you how to do it the cheap way.

Does your fuel have prist? Just a precaution. The Russians don't use Prist
so I wouldn't worry if you don't. Besides, it burns the fuel to fast to ice
up!

I'm Doubtful that anything is wrong.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:23 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

Gary, I do not have a tool to bleed the air. Any way to do it safely without
it? Ernie My isolation switch is working and I am aware of the emergency
procedures at diff alt AGL for use of the isolation switch. As for the
knurled knob on the fuel control, I know what one you are talking about (I
think) it clicks as you turn it, and its on the top of the unit? any idea
how much you have to turn it to get an increase or is it a run it/turn it
until you get the 35%-39% I will assume turning it to the right will
increase my idle. thanks again for the help guys
---


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:24 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

filter was checked at aug annual as it should have been. It just was not me
who did it.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:33 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

Bill I do not have the right tool to blead the system, I would love to hear
the cheep way( lol) does that word even go in a sentance with l-29. I do
have prist in the fuel at this time of year. I will inspect the filter so i
will need to blead the lines I am sure.what is the best way to get to the
sump and not make a huge mess?
---


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

I spoke with doug weske also about the idle issue a few days back and he
said in the cold temp he had to adjust his idle up as well, then back down
after the weather warmed up.
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Ernie



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:56 pm    Post subject: low idle and fuel pressure issues. Reply with quote

I'll look in the manual for the exact idle adjustment procedure, but I
would think the easiest way would be to start the engine and have a
buddy turn the idle until it is at 35%. You can bleed the system using
some soft clear tubing, and a panneling nail. Take off the protective
cap from the bleed valve which is located at the high point of the
BCU. Slip the tubing over (make sure you have about 2 ft so you can
route it out of the fuselage and into a can or bottle) then slip the
nail through the tubing and down into the bleed va;ve. It works just
like a shrader valve. Turn on the LP pump, and puch the nail to
depress the bleed valve, fuel should come out, stop when its a clear
flow with no bubbles.

Ernie

On 3/21/06, Brian Colombo <Bcolombo(at)twcny.rr.com> wrote:
[quote]

Gary, I do not have a tool to bleed the air. Any way to do it safely without
it? Ernie My isolation switch is working and I am aware of the emergency
procedures at diff alt AGL for use of the isolation switch. As for the
knurled knob on the fuel control, I know what one you are talking about (I
think) it clicks as you turn it, and its on the top of the unit? any idea
how much you have to turn it to get an increase or is it a run it/turn it
until you get the 35%-39% I will assume turning it to the right will
increase my idle. thanks again for the help guys
---


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