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Annunciator panel LED brightness

 
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rv8ch



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:14 am    Post subject: Annunciator panel LED brightness Reply with quote

All this talk about annunciator panels has got
me thinking about mine. Looking at the LEDs
on eBay, I'm wondering what brightness of
LEDs I should use? Anyone have any suggestions?

These guys http://www.superbrightleds.com/leds.htm
show LEDs from about 1500 mcd up to 18,000 mcd.
This offer on eBay shows 27,000 mcd. I'm planning
to have the LEDs behind some colored plastic
covers. Obviously I'd like them to be visible
during the day, and dimmable to something reasonable
at night. Not sure how far down a LED can be
dimmed.

Thanks for any suggestions.

--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing


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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:48 pm    Post subject: Annunciator panel LED brightness Reply with quote

At 07:07 PM 3/11/2006 +0100, you wrote:

Quote:

<mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>

All this talk about annunciator panels has got
me thinking about mine. Looking at the LEDs
on eBay, I'm wondering what brightness of
LEDs I should use? Anyone have any suggestions?

These guys http://www.superbrightleds.com/leds.htm
show LEDs from about 1500 mcd up to 18,000 mcd.
This offer on eBay shows 27,000 mcd. I'm planning
to have the LEDs behind some colored plastic
covers. Obviously I'd like them to be visible
during the day, and dimmable to something reasonable
at night. Not sure how far down a LED can be
dimmed.

As bright as you can get. You can always make them
less but never make them more.

LEDs can be dimmed from any maximum output all the
way down to invisible . . . the major problem is
that they're CURRENT operated devices, not VOLTAGE.
Duty cycle switching at full operating current is
the most practical way to dim them (if our annunciator
comes into being, it will have a DIM input that tracks
the incandescent lamp dimming curve based on voltage.

Bob . . .


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rv8ch



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:03 pm    Post subject: Annunciator panel LED brightness Reply with quote

Quote:

As bright as you can get. You can always make them
less but never make them more.

Thanks. I ordered a bunch of the 40,000 mcd LEDs,
holders, and resistors from these guys:

http://www.besthongkong.com/

Pretty good prices.

--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive


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Mark Phillips in TN



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:26 pm    Post subject: Annunciator panel LED brightness Reply with quote

If you folks are really interested in a cheap (pretty sure I have less than
$30 in the thing), very effective annunciator panel, this has worked out very
well for me- after almost 300 hours I haven't missed a single "annunciation"
and couldn't be happier with the reliability, brightness, or anything else for
that matter of this very basic, functional and easy to build project:

http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5130

Scroll backwards and forwards through the log entrys for the whole story. I
you want a custom a-panel at minimum cost, and a fun, interesting project to
put together, this silly little thing definately fit the bill for me.....

Quote:
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips


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rv8ch



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:09 pm    Post subject: Annunciator panel LED brightness Reply with quote

Quote:
If you folks are really interested in a cheap (pretty sure I have less than
$30 in the thing), very effective annunciator panel, this has worked out very
well for me- after almost 300 hours I haven't missed a single "annunciation"
and couldn't be happier with the reliability, brightness, or anything else for
that matter of this very basic, functional and easy to build project:

http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5130


Mark,

Very nice work. If I understand the drawing and the log entries,
you have set up two positions for the annunciator - bright and
dim - is this right?

Is the timer module to cause the low fuel lights to flash?

If you don't mind sending me the .dwg that would be great. I
can't quite read all the part numbers.

Thanks,

--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive


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jschroeder(at)perigee.net
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:34 am    Post subject: Annunciator panel LED brightness Reply with quote

I used Mark's schematic, including the zener dimming, and it works great.
I needed more lights and wanted larger ones, so I used NKK lamps and made
an annunciator to fit in the stack.

http://w1.lancair.net/pix/jschroeder-panel/Panel_Test_4

Cheers,

John
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:14:40 EST, <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com> wrote:

Quote:
If you folks are really interested in a cheap (pretty sure I have less
than $30 in the thing), very effective annunciator panel, this has
worked out very well for me- after almost 300 hours I haven't missed a
single "annunciation" and couldn't be happier with the reliability,
brightness, or anything else for that matter of this very basic,
functional and easy to build project:

--


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Dennis Johnson



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 89
Location: N. Calif.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject: Annunciator Panel LED Brightness Reply with quote

I'm fooling around with designing an annunciator panel with LEDs and bought a variety from DigiKey to test. I found the following LEDs to be bright enough for daylight use:

DigiKey # 404-1145-ND (Red)

Here's a photo of a green one:
http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Stanley/Web%20Photo/MU04-5102.jpg

Here's tech data (in the bottom section):
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T061/1750.pdf

As you can see, each light is a rectangle containing three LEDs behind a heavily frosted panel. Although each of the three LEDs is rated at only 32 mcd (for the red), they are plenty bright to illuminate the annunciator label.

By the way, here's my favorite for a panel flood light LED:

Photo: http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Lite-on/Web%20Photos/LTL-4238,LTL33BCWK5AT.jpg

Here's the data:
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T061/1756.pdf

It's listed at 4,800 mcd, and really throws out the light! The "white" ones are more expensive, so I didn't test that many different ones, so there are others that are likely better. But these will do the job for me.

Thanks again to all those who helped me learn about LEDs, resistors, and zener diodes. It was fun to learn new things that I can put to use!

Dennis Johnson
Lancair Legacy (still wiring and wishing the weather was good enough to start painting)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:23 pm    Post subject: Annunciator panel LED brightness Reply with quote

Very nice panel John.

---


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Mark Phillips in TN



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:37 pm    Post subject: Annunciator panel LED brightness Reply with quote

In a message dated 03/12/2006 1:10:54 AM Central Standard Time,
mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch writes:

Very nice work. If I understand the drawing and the log entries,
you have set up two positions for the annunciator - bright and
dim - is this right?

Correct- the LED modules are deliberately overdriven a bit to make sure they
get my attention- They are plenty bright for daytime with the resistors
specified, but had to be choked down a bit at night. Don't worry, I tested these
modules at 12V for about 4 days continuous- they were pretty spectacular, but
didn't burn out.

Is the timer module to cause the low fuel lights to flash?

No, just a time delay before the LEDs come on. Same thing Bob was talking
about a few months ago- if you have a float switch in the tank, you don't want
it flashing constantly as the switch makes/breaks a hundred times before the
fuel level finally gets low enough that it doesn't keep tripping the switch-
this time is set up to not output (turn on the annunciator LED) until the float
switch has been OFF for a continuous 60 seconds. It rarely turns on and off
again, but definately tells me the tanks are down to about 6-7 gallons.

If you don't mind sending me the .dwg that would be great. I
can't quite read all the part numbers.
On it's way...

Mark do not archive


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Mark Phillips in TN



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:24 pm    Post subject: Annunciator Panel LED Brightness Reply with quote

In a message dated 03/12/2006 1:20:48 PM Central Standard Time,
pinetownd(at)volcano.net writes:
As you can see, each light is a rectangle containing three LEDs behind a
heavily frosted panel. Although each of the three LEDs is rated at only 32 mcd
(for the red), they are plenty bright to illuminate the annunciator label.
Quote:
>>>>>

These are the ones I used on my panel and very pleased with the results-

Mark Phillips do not archive


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PLaurence(at)the-beach.ne
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:10 am    Post subject: Annunciator panel LED brightness Reply with quote

John,

I sent Mark an email on his web site for the dwg drawing but did not receive
an answer.

Would you send me the file?

Peter
RV9A fuse

Quote:
I used Mark's schematic, including the zener dimming, and it works great.
I needed more lights and wanted larger ones, so I used NKK lamps and made
an annunciator to fit in the stack.

http://w1.lancair.net/pix/jschroeder-panel/Panel_Test_4

Cheers,

John


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william.p.dube(at)noaa.go
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:46 am    Post subject: Annunciator panel LED brightness Reply with quote

There really is no need for a fancy electronic circuit to dim LEDs.

If you simply put a "ballast" resistor in series to limit the current,
you can dim them with the rest of your panel lights.

Typically, LEDs draw 20 mA for full brightness. (Look on the spec
sheet to be sure) For a red LED in a 13.8 volt system to calculate the
resistor value:

R = (13.8-2)/0.020 = 590 ohms. You would pick a 620 ohm resistor
because 590 ohms is not a standard value.

A 1/2 watt resistor would be prudent, but a 1/4 watt might do
W=(13.8-2)*0.02 = 0.24 W

For a 30 mA high-power white LED the calculations would be:

R=(13.8-3.4)/0.030=347 Ohms. You would pick 360 ohms because it is a
standard value.

A 1/2 watt resistor would be required W=(13.8-3.4)*0.03 = 0.35 W

If you reduce the voltage supplied to the LED and ballast resistor,
it will dim a lot like an ordinary incandescent light. You can do this
with an ordinary rheostat. You can be a bit more clever and do it with
an LM317.

http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/LM317-D.PDF

This is a $0.35 part from www.digikey.com. You don't need the
capacitors shown in the circuit for this application.

You can be VERY clever and put a photo transistor in place of R1 to
make the light dim automatically.

Bill Dube'

Peter Laurence wrote:

Quote:


John,

I sent Mark an email on his web site for the dwg drawing but did not receive
an answer.

Would you send me the file?

Peter
RV9A fuse



>I used Mark's schematic, including the zener dimming, and it works great.
>I needed more lights and wanted larger ones, so I used NKK lamps and made
>an annunciator to fit in the stack.
>
>http://w1.lancair.net/pix/jschroeder-panel/Panel_Test_4
>
>Cheers,
>
>John
>
>










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