Matronics Email Lists Forum Index Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
 
 Get Email Distribution Too!Get Email Distribution Too!    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

601XL/TD

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith601-List
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:01 am    Post subject: 601XL/TD Reply with quote

Paul:

Real Pilots fly Tail Draggers

Real Bikers ride Kick Starters

Smile Smile Smile Wink

Saludos
Gary Gower
PLEASE Do not archive.



--- On Wed, 7/30/08, Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net> wrote:

Quote:
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Re: 601XL/TD
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 10:02 PM

Quote:
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>

There are some down side issues with tail draggers too.

Tail draggers have much higher accident rates than tricycle gear
planes. The accidents are not usually fatal or even very bad for
human injury, but the damage to the planes is expensive. That means
insurance can be a lot higher for tail draggers.

My own (mostly uninformed) opinion is that tail draggers were never
really meant for use on runways and particularly not on paved
runways. They are well suited to flying fields that allow takeoff
and landing always directly into the wind.

I read an analysis on RV's that changing from a tail dragger to a
nose wheel configuration added a mere 2 miles per hour to a 200 mph plane.

Given all that, I feel tricycle gear is a much better choice.

Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
At 06:41 PM 7/30/2008, you wrote:
Quote:
I would not expect the interest to be as high in the tail dragger
version, but
I suspect that is because most learn to fly now in tricycle gear aircraft.
However, tailwheel aircraft usually have less drag and weight less. While
that might not be as important in many applications, for LSA, it seems to
me

Quote:
it should have a much greater level of consideration.



[quote][b]


- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
Back to top
steve(at)data-base-soluti
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:08 am    Post subject: 601XL/TD Reply with quote

<< Real Pilots fly Tail Draggers

Real Bikers ride Kick Starters >>

I have air conditioning in my Jeep Wrangler so I better not get sucked in to this thread.

Do not archive.

Steve


From: owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith601-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Gower
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:59 AM
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: 601XL/TD


Paul:



Real Pilots fly Tail Draggers



Real Bikers ride Kick Starters



Smile Smile Smile Wink



Saludos

Gary Gower

PLEASE Do not archive.






--- On Wed, 7/30/08, Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net> wrote:
Quote:

From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Re: 601XL/TD
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 10:02 PM
Quote:
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net> There are some down side issues with tail draggers too. Tail draggers have much higher accident rates than tricycle gear planes. The accidents are not usually fatal or even very bad for human injury, but the damage to the planes is expensive. That means insurance can be a lot higher for tail draggers. My own (mostly uninformed) opinion is that tail draggers were never
0
Quote:
1
Quote:
2
Quote:
3
Quote:
4
Quote:
5
Quote:
6
Quote:
7
Quote:
8
Quote:
9
Quote:
There are some down side issues with tail draggers too.
0
Quote:
There are some down side issues with tail draggers too.
1
Quote:
There are some down side issues with tail draggers too.
2
Quote:
There are some down side issues with tail draggers too.
3
Quote:
There are some down side issues with tail draggers too.
4
Quote:
There are some down side issues with tail draggers too.
5
Quote:
There are some down side issues with tail draggers too.
6
Quote:
There are some down side issues with tail draggers too.
7
Quote:
There are some down side issues with tail draggers too.
8
Quote:
There are some down side issues with tail draggers too.
9
Quote:
0
Quote:
1
Quote:
2
Quote:
3
Quote:
4
Quote:
5
Quote:
6
Quote:
7


[quote][b]


- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
Back to top
m.l.marcotte(at)sympatico
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:13 pm    Post subject: 601XL/TD Reply with quote

They also eat runway lights for breakfast... Smile
[quote] ---


- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
Back to top
z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:05 am    Post subject: 601XL/TD Reply with quote

On Wednesday 03 September 2008 19:14, M.Marcotte wrote:

Somehow, we managed to fly taildraggers for years, until we got enough
performance that we could afford the extra weight and drag of a tricycle
gear. There's no question that they are slightly more difficult to land (and
perhaps, to a lesser extent, take off). And yes, modern design has managed to
reduce the impact of tricycle gear. It doesn't eliminate it, but it certainly
reduces it.

But it begs the original issue. Is the limited performance we have with LSAs
such that we should seriously consider trimming all the weight and drag we
can, to the extent of considering tail wheel aircraft?

The 601/650 is one of the better designs around (the best, in my judgement),
yet it could still use all the additional payload it can get. Tricytcle gears
usually weigh more than conventional gears. There isn't too much obvious
additional reduction in drag one could get, other than maybe going to a
conventional gear.

I say all this with considerable trepedation. By the time I began taking
flying lessons (1968), most training was done in tricycle gear aircraft, and
I've never flown a conventionally geared aircraft.

Still, if money and other factors permitted, I'd still be flying my Cherokee
180, so I must consider all factors before making a final committment.

[quote] They also eat runway lights for breakfast... Smile
---


- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
Back to top
jmaynard



Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:13 am    Post subject: 601XL/TD Reply with quote

On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 08:08:29AM -0500, Jim Belcher wrote:
Quote:
But it begs the original issue. Is the limited performance we have with LSAs
such that we should seriously consider trimming all the weight and drag we
can, to the extent of considering tail wheel aircraft?

Just how much does the 601's nose gear weigh?

One of the questions I was asked when I was getting insurance was whether
the airplane was a taildragger; it would have been significantly more
expensive if it had been. When you consider that the insurance industry
views LSAs with deep skepticism due to their accident rates, adding
taildragger into the mix would be a big hit.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC


- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Gig Giacona



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: 601XL/TD Reply with quote

jmaynard wrote:
Just how much does the 601's nose gear weigh?



According to William Wynne the 601XL/TD he built didn't weigh that much more than a tricycle geared version. Though he does add the caveat that the plane he built did have some of the hardware already mounted. But not the gear and the wheel/tire.


- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:04 am    Post subject: 601XL/TD Reply with quote

On Thursday 04 September 2008 10:41, Gig Giacona wrote:
Quote:


jmaynard wrote:
> Just how much does the 601's nose gear weigh?

According to William Wynne the 601XL/TD he built didn't weigh that much
more than a tricycle geared version. Though he does add the caveat that the
plane he built did have some of the hardware already mounted. But not the
gear and the wheel/tire.

I'm not sure I understand ... do you mean the TD weighed more than the
tricycle version? I would have expected the reverse. If the coventional gear
weighs more than the tricycle gear, then the choice would be more obvious.

I have asked Zenith the question about conventional gear vs tricycle gear
weight, and was told I'd get an answer right after Osh. It may be that
everyone is busy with the new variant coming out, but so far, I don't have an
answer.
--
==============================================
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
=================================================
Jim B. Belcher
BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Instrument Rated Pilot
General Radio Telephone Certificate
=================================================


- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
Back to top
dalemed



Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: 601XL/TD Reply with quote

Here are my reasons for building the 601XL/TD:

1) I think it looks better
2) I've owned 3 planes, all of which were taildraggers, and I don't want to change now.
3) While I can't quantify it, I'm sure the tailwheel parts weigh less than the nosewheel parts.
4) Less aerodynamic drag.
5) I won't have to worry about the tail hitting the ground when a stout person (such as myself) puts their weight on the step to climb into the plane.
6) I won't have the holes in the firewall for the nosewheel steering rods.
7) I won't have to worry about the tail hitting the ground during a full stall landing.
8) I'm putting a Corvair engine on the front which is heavier than a Rotax or Jabiru. A little more weight in the tail instead of the nose shouldn't hurt.
9) I think it looks better.


- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

_________________
Dale
Zenith Zodiac CH650
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tiethoff



Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:46 am    Post subject: 601XL/TD Reply with quote

I think you are right. Nosewheels are for sissies !

Eric

--------------------------------------------------
From: "dalemed" <dalemed(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 4:35 PM
To: <zenith601-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: 601XL/TD

Quote:


Here are my reasons for building the 601XL/TD:

1) I think it looks better
2) I've owned 3 planes, all of which were taildraggers, and I don't want
to change now.
3) While I can't quantify it, I'm sure the tailwheel parts weigh less than
the nosewheel parts.
4) Less aerodynamic drag.
5) I won't have to worry about the tail hitting the ground when a stout
person (such as myself) puts their weight on the step to climb into the
plane.
6) I won't have the holes in the firewall for the nosewheel steering rods.
7) I won't have to worry about the tail hitting the ground during a full
stall landing.
Cool I'm putting a Corvair engine on the front which is heavier than a Rotax
or Jabiru. A little more weight in the tail instead of the nose shouldn't
hurt.
9) I think it looks better.

--------
Dale
Flying Cessna 170B
Building Zenith 601XL


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2745#202745





- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jimandmandy(at)yahoo.com
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:34 am    Post subject: 601XL/TD Reply with quote

So are electrical systems.

--- On Fri, 9/5/08, Eric Tiethoff (HCCNet) <j.e.tiethoff(at)hccnet.nl> wrote:
[quote]From: Eric Tiethoff (HCCNet) <j.e.tiethoff(at)hccnet.nl>
Subject: Re: Re: 601XL/TD
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, September 5, 2008, 7:45 AM

[quote]--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Eric Tiethoff (HCCNet)"
<j.e.tiethoff(at)hccnet.nl>

I think you are right. Nosewheels are for sissies !

Eric

--------------------------------------------------
From: "dalemed" <dalemed(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 4:35 PM
To: <zenith601-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: 601XL/TD

Quote:
--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "dalemed"
<dalemed(at)gmail.com>

Quote:

Here are my reasons for building the 601XL/TD:

1) I think it looks better
2) I've owned 3 planes, all of which were taildraggers, and I
don't want

Quote:
to change now.
3) While I can't quantify it, I'm sure the tailwheel parts weigh
less than

Quote:
the nosewheel parts.
4) Less aerodynamic drag.
5) I won't have to worry about the tail hitting the ground when a
stout

Quote:
person (such as myself) puts their weight on the step to climb into the
plane.
6) I won't have the holes in the firewall for the nosewheel steering
rods.

Quote:
7) I won't have to worry about the tail hitting the ground during a
full

Quote:
stall landing.
Cool I'm putting a Corvair engine on the front which is heavier than a
Rotax

[quote] or Jabiru. A little more weight in the tail instead of the nose
shouldn't
Quote:
[b]


- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List
Back to top
Gig Giacona



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: 601XL/TD Reply with quote

dalemed wrote:
Here are my reasons for building the 601XL/TD:

1) I think it looks better
...
9) I think it looks better.


1 & 9 were all the reasons you really needed.


- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
dalemed



Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: 601XL/TD Reply with quote

Gig Giacona wrote:


1 & 9 were all the reasons you really needed.


Which is why they framed the rest Smile


- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

_________________
Dale
Zenith Zodiac CH650
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith601-List All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group