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Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way?

 
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Jerry Grimmonpre'



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 144
Location: Huntley, Illinois 60142

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:16 am    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

Hi All,
I've got an idea I'd like to have comments on. This will require AutoCad or
TurboCad skills which I don't have and not interested in learning. I first
need the help of someone who can copy Bob's schematic symbols and somehow
place them on a Print program. It may take a couple pages of Print to
acommodate all the symbols. Reformat the Print symbols to JPG to reduce the
file size. Then make these symbols available, with a URL, to those who want
to use them for their schematic. If this is possible, those of us drawing
schematics could use Paint to create their schematic by simple Copy/Paste
methods. It may be a little crude but who cares if the schematic portrays
accurately the flow of electrons and the symbols are spot-on accurate!? I
have no clue if this is possible but I know there are some very sharp and
creative souls on this list who will find a way, if there is one.
Regards ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:26 am    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

At 12:14 PM 2/18/2006 -0600, you wrote:

Quote:


Hi All,
I've got an idea I'd like to have comments on. This will require AutoCad or
TurboCad skills which I don't have and not interested in learning. I first
need the help of someone who can copy Bob's schematic symbols and somehow
place them on a Print program. It may take a couple pages of Print to
acommodate all the symbols. Reformat the Print symbols to JPG to reduce the
file size. Then make these symbols available, with a URL, to those who want
to use them for their schematic. If this is possible, those of us drawing
schematics could use Paint to create their schematic by simple Copy/Paste
methods. It may be a little crude but who cares if the schematic portrays
accurately the flow of electrons and the symbols are spot-on accurate!? I
have no clue if this is possible but I know there are some very sharp and
creative souls on this list who will find a way, if there is one.

I'm not sure that Paint skills are any easier to
acquire. I use three different kinds of paint/photo editors
plus AutoCAD. The paint programs are almost impossible to
use for schematic drawings. They're like trying to draw
with a crayon rubber-banded to the end of a long stick.

If you want to avoid adding CAD to your box of tricks, then
consider paper/ink. Draw your schematics on good paper in #2
pencil as sketches. When all the data are correct, get out
a straight edge, circle guide, and ink pen to pretty-up
the drawing using penciled data as guide.

When finished, remove all pencil marks with pink eraser and
fog the drawing with a light coat of clear Krylon. You'll have
better looking drawings in less time than it takes to push
blobs of pixels around on a computer screen.

On the CAD side, consider that all CAD programs have hundreds
to thousands of commands that every tutorial writer feels obligated
to teach. Years ago I discovered an AutoCAD feature that allows
one to replace the extended, full word command set with simple
abbreviated strings of your choice. I began to craft my own
command overlay file which ended up looking like this:

AR, *ARRAY
B, *BLOCK
WB, *WRITEBLOCK
BR, *BREAK
CI, *CIRCLE
C, *CHANGE
CH, *CHAMFER
CO, *COPY
D, *DIMSTYLE
DI, *DIST
DO, *DONUT
DT, *DTEXT
E, *ERASE
ED, *DDEDIT
EL, *ELLIPSE
XT, *EXTEND
EXIT, *QUIT
F, *FILLET
H, *HATCH
I, *INSERT
IP, *ISOPLANE
L, *LINE
LA, *LAYER
LI, *LIST
LT, *LINETYPE
M, *MOVE
MI, *MIRROR
OF, *OFFSET
OS, *OSNAP
P, *PAN
PE, *PEDIT
PL, *PLINE
PG, *POLYGON
P, *PURGE
R, *REDRAW
RG, *REGEN
RT, *RECTANGLE
REN *RENAME
RO, *ROTATE
S, *STRETCH
SC, *SCALE
SCR, *SCRIPT
T, *TRIM
V, *VIEW
XP, *EXPLODE
Z, *ZOOM

There are 46 AutoCAD commands in this list. Two things happened
when, after several years, I looked at the list. It told me
that out of thousands of things AutoCAD will do, less
than 50 of those commands took care of 99% of my use of AutoCAD.
In fact, probably half that list covers 98%, the rest covers 1.9%
and from time to time (0.1%) I have to dig out some new feature
in AutoCAD.

The list also represented a suggested study guide for new users.
Get out the tutorial for your particular CAD program and learn
the functions that parallel the list above. I suspect you too
will discover that taming the mighty beast CAD is not
as great a task as the tutorials would suggest.

Bob . . .


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LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:15 am    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

The easiest way to do this is to get a copy of Microsoft Visio, it is
part of the office suite, and your work probably has it for you to use
there. They have all of the templates available in there and you can
download additional ones from the website for it. Visio is the easiest
way to make schematics, flowcharts, etc

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melvinke(at)direcway.com
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

Visio is useful for this purpose, but please explain the process by which
Aeroelectric symbols can be introduced into Visio templates.
Kenneth Melvin
Hillsboro, OR

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:26 pm    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

If they are already in digital format you can import them as line
drawings, or draw them your self and make them a template for Visio, and
then this will give you the ability to use the other ones as well. But
the original question from the poster was not to use Aeroelectric
symbols, rather he was looking for an easy way to make schematics, even
to the point of using paint, which would be a real painful process,
especially when Visio already has default electrical schematic
templates.
Hope this helps
Dan

--


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:34 am    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

Bob-

In an informal session in Nashville a few years ago, you gave me this same
advice. I returned home I did just as you outlined below. It saved eons of
grief and the whole system works like a champ. Looking for menu items or
icons is a lot harder and more time consuming than typing one or two
letters to get the tool you need.

Cheers,

John Schroeder
Do not Archive.
Quote:

On the CAD side, consider that all CAD programs have hundreds
to thousands of commands that every tutorial writer feels obligated
to teach. Years ago I discovered an AutoCAD feature that allows
one to replace the extended, full word command set with simple
abbreviated strings of your choice. I began to craft my own
command overlay file which ended up looking like this:

AR, *ARRAY
B, *BLOCK
WB, *WRITEBLOCK
BR, *BREAK
CI, *CIRCLE
C, *CHANGE
CH, *CHAMFER
CO, *COPY
D, *DIMSTYLE
DI, *DIST
DO, *DONUT
DT, *DTEXT
E, *ERASE
ED, *DDEDIT
EL, *ELLIPSE
XT, *EXTEND
EXIT, *QUIT
F, *FILLET
H, *HATCH
I, *INSERT
IP, *ISOPLANE
L, *LINE
LA, *LAYER
LI, *LIST
LT, *LINETYPE
M, *MOVE
MI, *MIRROR
OF, *OFFSET
OS, *OSNAP
P, *PAN
PE, *PEDIT
PL, *PLINE
PG, *POLYGON
P, *PURGE
R, *REDRAW
RG, *REGEN
RT, *RECTANGLE
REN *RENAME
RO, *ROTATE
S, *STRETCH
SC, *SCALE
SCR, *SCRIPT
T, *TRIM
V, *VIEW
XP, *EXPLODE
Z, *ZOOM

There are 46 AutoCAD commands in this list. Two things happened
when, after several years, I looked at the list. It told me
that out of thousands of things AutoCAD will do, less
than 50 of those commands took care of 99% of my use of AutoCAD.
In fact, probably half that list covers 98%, the rest covers 1.9%
and from time to time (0.1%) I have to dig out some new feature
in AutoCAD.

The list also represented a suggested study guide for new users.
Get out the tutorial for your particular CAD program and learn
the functions that parallel the list above. I suspect you too
will discover that taming the mighty beast CAD is not
as great a task as the tutorials would suggest.

Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

I'll make my recommendation again, for those who are newbies at this and
want a simple schematic drawing program, go to http://www.capilano.com/ and
download Designworks LITE and if you like it, pay $39.95. It will do what
you need to do and without memorizing commands or trying to make a program
like Visio or Paint do something it was never designed to do.

Dave Morris

At 09:22 PM 2/19/2006, you wrote:
[quote]
<LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>

If they are already in digital format you can import them as line
drawings, or draw them your self and make them a template for Visio, and
then this will give you the ability to use the other ones as well. But
the original question from the poster was not to use Aeroelectric
symbols, rather he was looking for an easy way to make schematics, even
to the point of using paint, which would be a real painful process,
especially when Visio already has default electrical schematic
templates.
Hope this helps
Dan

--


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:07 am    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

Dave
Visio not designed to draw? Vision is on of the best flow chart,
diagramming programs out there, and its use could not be easier. Drag
and drop with built in templates, multiple layers, labeling, colors, and
the ability to link diagrams, so that when you move one object the
connecting line goes with it, could not be easier. Plus an interface
that most people are familiar with, because it is integrated with the
office suite, and you can demo it for free.
Don't see how it could be easier.
Just my .02
Dan
RV-10 40269
Do not archive

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:57 am    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

Yes, I love Visio for what it does well. (I'm a consultant, so Visio is my
second best friend.) I've used the Technical edition and the Professional
edition to draw everything from flowcharts to network diagrams to
floorplans. And I've been using it since way before Microsoft "absorbed"
it. But for schematics, it's not as good as DesignWorks Lite. I could be
wrong, but I don't think there is a Visio edition for $39.95 that will do
schematics and includes a component library. If it can do something like
this:
http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/N75UP-Schematic-June2005.pdf
please let me know, because I'll be glad to switch.

Dave Morris
At 01:03 PM 2/20/2006, you wrote:
[quote]
<LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>

Dave
Visio not designed to draw? Vision is on of the best flow chart,
diagramming programs out there, and its use could not be easier. Drag
and drop with built in templates, multiple layers, labeling, colors, and
the ability to link diagrams, so that when you move one object the
connecting line goes with it, could not be easier. Plus an interface
that most people are familiar with, because it is integrated with the
office suite, and you can demo it for free.
Don't see how it could be easier.
Just my .02
Dan
RV-10 40269
Do not archive

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rv8ch



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:54 pm    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

I did my wiring diagram with Visio.

http://www.rv8.ch/images/articles/20041121101637759_1_original.gif

Visio is a great program as you know, but it costs *a lot* more
than 40 bucks. Luckily I had a copy it from a previous life so I
didn't have to pay for it myself.

I tried DesignWorks Lite, hoping it could replace Visio, but I
think it is targeted towards people that know something about
electricity - that ain't me. I couldn't figure out how to draw
a line, so I went back to Visio. I just don't have the time to
invest to learn a new CAD program right now, since I only use
it from time to time. For those of you who don't know Visio
or DesignWorks (or any of the other nice drawing packages out
there) I'd go with something cheap.

Mickey

Dave Morris "BigD" wrote:
Quote:


Yes, I love Visio for what it does well. (I'm a consultant, so Visio is my
second best friend.) I've used the Technical edition and the Professional
edition to draw everything from flowcharts to network diagrams to
floorplans. And I've been using it since way before Microsoft "absorbed"
it. But for schematics, it's not as good as DesignWorks Lite. I could be
wrong, but I don't think there is a Visio edition for $39.95 that will do
schematics and includes a component library. If it can do something like
this:
http://www.davemorris.com/Photos/Dragonfly%20Electrical/N75UP-Schematic-June2005.pdf
please let me know, because I'll be glad to switch.

Dave Morris


--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive


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Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:16 pm    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

The new version 2003 Professional offers a whole new type called
electrical engineering and has a couple of hundred different symbols
available as a template, and can import the CAD symbols if you want. I
re-did the drawing you showed in about 10 minutes, of course I did not
have to design it "GRIN", then I linked the objects, and as I move them
around the page the bus moves with them, it also has the ability to do 4
conductor buses, pretty slick.
The demo is free, and most of us have access to it through our
workplace. If you work at a larger company that has a Microsoft select
agreement, the IT shop is allowed to give it to you for home use, most
people do not know this, and most IT departments will not tell you,
because they do not want to support it at home. But become good friends
with an IT guy and you will have access to it.
Or load the demo and try it that way, but make sure to get the 2003 Pro,
because this is the first version to include electrical engineering and
makes it real easy to make schematics.
Dan


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:07 pm    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote:

Quote:


<snip>
Or load the demo and try it that way, but make sure to get the 2003 Pro,
because this is the first version to include electrical engineering and
makes it real easy to make schematics.


Maybe it is the first since Micro$oft has owned it, but my version of

Visio Technical 4.0 (1995) came with LOTS of electrical symbols (as well
as mechanical, chemical, petroleum, network, landscaping, home, network,
etc.).

It wasn't as cheap as $39.95, but it used to be a bargain before
Micro$oft bought them.

Dick Tasker

Do not archive

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:17 am    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

Here's another, very easy to use FREE schematic program:

http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Free_cad_software.htm

I ran across this several weeks ago and have used it to redraw my alarm
panel which I built using Jim Weir's Kit Planes articles.

I have a copy of TurboCad v9 and have used Turbocad for years (it is cheap
and very powerful), but the ExpressPCB is much more suited to doing wiring
schematics. Many symbols are built in but they are mostly for printed
circuits. However, it is very easy to develop custom symbols and put them
in the "favorite" library.

Ronnie Brown
Velocity 173 RG Elite


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

Ron Brown wrote:
Quote:


Here's another, very easy to use FREE schematic program:

http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Free_cad_software.htm

I ran across this several weeks ago and have used it to redraw my alarm
panel which I built using Jim Weir's Kit Planes articles.


I've done many, many electronic and electrical designs using ExpressSCH
and ExpressPCB.

This includes a complete electrical systems design for my RV-9A, which I
make publically available, along with a symbol library.

FMI, see http://vx-aviation.com/page_3.html

Vern Littl


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Jerry Grimmonpre'



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 144
Location: Huntley, Illinois 60142

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:15 am    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

Hi All ...
I want to announce my appreciation for all the comments received for the
above subject. This list rocks ... when there's a need to feed, you guys
step-up to the plate and hit home runs. There were well over a dozen
replies with suggestions and comments. I've tried several programs and
found I prefer something simple and predicable with no study time involved.

Yesterday I got my patience out of storage and made a schematic for the fat
wires and big users, with my paint program. The design includes two
batteries, one alternator, starter, three busses and required control
switches and power diodes, for an all electric RV8A. It took a bit of time
but I'm happy. I will continue with Paint to create the individual
circuits.
Many thinks to all ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:42 am    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

Hi Jerry et al-

I couldn't agree more. There are superb examples of what our computer savvy cohorts can do, but I'm not one of them. Sometimes folks that have gained significant skill sets through work or other hobbies forget that these are non-trivial excercises for the rest of us. I've looked at and tinkered with much of what has been suggested on this list, but the time / effort / cost involved in mastering these tools is more than I care to invest. Hence, I've created a Paint file titled "parts", and I cut and paste what I need to make the schematics for my all-electric, IFR airplane. They are definately not as pretty as what has been offered up here, but they work quite well for my needs. My design principles may leave folks scratching their heads, but the schematics are quite self explanatory. No, I can't post them to a web site (see above), but I can fwd examples to anyone interested off-line when and as I pass through town.

FWIW, nomex undies in place, wiring virtually done AND documented...


Hi All,
Quote:
I've got an idea I'd like to have comments on. This will require
AutoCad or
TurboCad skills which I don't have and not interested in learning. I
first
need the help of someone who can copy Bob's schematic symbols and
somehow
place them on a Print program. It may take a couple pages of Print to
acommodate all the symbols. Reformat the Print symbols to JPG to reduce
the
file size. Then make these symbols available, with a URL, to those who
want
to use them for their schematic. If this is possible, those of us
drawing
schematics could use Paint to create their schematic by simple
Copy/Paste
methods. It may be a little crude but who cares if the schematic
portrays
accurately the flow of electrons and the symbols are spot-on accurate!?
I
have no clue if this is possible but I know there are some very sharp
and
creative souls on this list who will find a way, if there is one.
Regards ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'


Glen Matejcek


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:34 am    Post subject: Schematic Symbols - An Easier Way? Reply with quote

Quote:
I want to announce my appreciation for all the comments received
for

Quote:
the above subject.


Just another bit of freeware to throw into the mix...
http://www.cadsoft.de/

Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK


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